Michael Manson

The views and opinions expressed by speakers and presenters in connection with Art Restart are their own, and not an endorsement by the Thomas S. Kenan Institute for the Arts and the UNC School of the Arts. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Dancer Michael Manson is an internationally recognized authority in Detroit Jit, a dance genre birthed in his hometown over 50 years ago. His talent earned him a national audience when he appeared on “So You Think You Can Dance” in 2015, and as a performer and teacher he has worked all over the States and as far away as Paris and La Paz. Once a student of famed dancer/choreographer Rennie Harris, he now tours with Rennie Harris Puremovement in performances of “Caravan,” starring jazz scholar Terence Blanchard.

Last year, Mike, in conjunction with the non-profit Living Arts, was one of five recipients of a prestigious Joyce Foundation grant for artists working in the Great Lakes region. Thanks to the grant’s support, Mike has been able to commit to his passion, namely teaching young people in Detroit about their city’s rich cultural history and ensuring that Detroit Jit is recognized, respected and studied as a distinctive American dance genre. 

The Joyce Foundation grant also allowed him to create “Rhythm of the Feet,” a concert-length dance production that not only centers Detroit Jit but also, thanks to a cast of professional dancers from around the country, places it in the context of other seminal American footwork styles, such as tap, Chicago footwork, House, Memphis Jookin and Lindy Hop.

Here he describes how he developed his passion for cultural preservation in tandem with his dance skills and explains why he takes pride in seeing his students overtake him … as long as they remain respectful of the Jit.

Choose a question below to begin exploring the interview:

• What is Detroit Jit? Where did it come from? What makes it what it is? And what’s significant about its history?
• What’s your origin story? When did you start dancing and when did Detroit Jit become your thing?
• When did you realize that part of your mission was about gaining respect for this particular dance genre?
• Is there a limit to how much you can alter the tradition? Given that you are preserving this genre, how many other influences can you throw into it and keep it what it is?
• What’s the mechanism for ensuring that the form remains authentic?
• When did that desire to give back and push the culture grow in you?
• What do you love most about your dancing?
• Why is it so important for you to keep the tradition of Detroit Jit alive and thriving?
• I want to talk about your partnership with Living Arts and the project “Rhythm of the Feet.”  How did it come about, and what your goals are with it?
• What might be changed, whether in funding or community systems or city government or the world of dance, so that both your dance work as well as your cultural preservation work would be easier for you?
• What do you think those foundations could do differently not to ask the artists to be amazing grant writers but reward them for their art alone?
• What’s the next big moment that you’re dreaming for yourself?

Pier Carlo Talenti: I’d love for you to describe what Detroit Jit is. Where did it come from? What makes it what it is? And what’s significant about its history?

Michael Manson: Detroit Jit was started in the 1970s. It was started to funk music. It’s an old style. Why I appreciate our style of dance and the culture of dance is that … . You can go all over the world, and styles that are related to us, like Chicago footwork, their OGs are in their 40s. Our OGs are much older, because our style was much older. It’s been around. 

Once the style grew on its own, it was like an evolution. The music changed, and now what people generally see us dance to is techno. Techno was made here in Detroit; it was birthed here in Detroit. Cybotron’s “Clear” and all that good music came from Detroit. A lot of people don’t know that.

Pier Carlo: Did the name Jit come out of the Jitterbug?

Michael: Well, generally, I would say that. I would think that the OGs didn’t understand that, but it did.

There was also a group of brothers called The Jitterbugs. It was three to four brothers. They used to do our fashion shows and all that. This was in the early ’70s, not super early, but in the ’70s. The style you see that I do now is the evolution of that. That was started in the late ’80s, ’90s. That’s when the style changed and we were dancing to techno. 

Now, it’s interesting, Detroit really hates this. And Detroit folk. We have this music festival every year that’s called Movement. You have all these people coming from everywhere, all the DJs coming, and these dancers are doing . We do not Shuffle to techno music.

Pier Carlo: When you say Detroit hates it, what do you mean? 

Michael: Because they put this style ... . The sound already has its own foundation of culture, and then this Shuffle stuff just came out of nowhere. So you see these Detroiters just looking like, “What?!” And then it’s blowing up. And Detroit didn’t have its moment. Detroit has still been fighting for its moment. The House dances and the House movement had its moment; Chicago Footwork has had its moment. 

Even all the way down to the music. If you think about it, you remember that song by Missy, “Lose Control”? If you look at that video, first off, the song behind it is from Detroit. And if you look at the dancers, the dancers are doing Chicago Footwork. The culture of Detroit has been fighting for respect and to have their moment for forever because they haven’t had their moment until my generation.

Pier Carlo: I want to talk about that, fighting for the respect of Detroit culture. But before I do, I want to talk about how you came to be a dancer. What’s your origin story? When did you start dancing and when did Detroit Jit become your thing?

Michael: I started dancing generally like everyone. I started dancing when I was very young, like four or five. It was just a hobby at first. I had competed. I was very, very known and popular in my area for dance. I was celebrated because at first I was a troubled kid. And then what dance did for me is it taught me how to be disciplined. Of course, I tried to do the sports, like every kid does. But you know, I had thought about it at a very young age. I said, “Yeah, I like sports, but I love dancing. And if I hurt myself playing sports and I can’t dance somewhere, I’m going to be bummed about not dancing.” I made that decision at a young age.

I had competed in the NAACP competition — we used to have them back in the day — and I made it to the nationals. When I made it to the nationals, I had no idea what a choreographer was; I had no idea of all these different styles of dance. I made it to the nationals, and it just opened my brain up. This was my last year of high school. I graduated in 2006. 

After that, they referred me to this guy named Rennie Harris. I wanted to really dance for him. I’m like, “Oh man!” So I bugged him. I bugged him every day. They gave me his information. I called him every day to the point that a year later he told me that I could come to Illadelph, which is in Philadelphia. He said, “If you pay for your bus ride or your flight, you can take classes for free and you can stay in the hotel for free.” 

So I did that. He let me stay out there. I learned about House; I learned about the foundations of Hip-Hop. A lot of the dances that I was doing, I didn’t know there was a name to them. I met these people like Buddha Stretch, all these giants to me. I was young. I took that and ran with it.

“So You Think You Can Dance” had just started airing in ’06, my senior year. That was one of my biggest goals, to make it on that show. I had dreams. I had these big dreams that my community couldn’t give me and didn’t have the resources to provide. It’s very rare for someone to come from my community to say they want to be professional dancers and not get judged, you understand what I’m saying?

Pier Carlo: Given how much dancing you learned in that decade, when did you realize that part of your mission was definitely about gaining respect for this particular dance genre?

Michael: Well, I always wanted to gain respect for this dance genre; that was always my goal. But when you walk into a room, you can walk in as yourself in some instances, but some things you have to learn with language, body language. You have to learn, you have to be welcoming. If I walked in a building and through my style came across to people as aggressive, they wouldn’t respect it. What I mean by it is I had to learn; I had to be a student. 

So I started learning House. I started sharpening in my popping. I’d go to these different places, and then I would mix in my style with them. And they’d be like, “What? What is that?” I had to learn I was a dancer first. I wasn’t just a Jitter. You see, I told you my students are just Jitters. I wasn’t just a Jitter because I taught them just how to Jit. They wanted to learn how to Jit. I was more of a dancer. When I came to that realization, that opened up doors for me. 

Then you start doing your own research. They call it Detroit Jit right now, but all it is Street Jazz. All these moves are in Jazz. You think this is a new style that’s been here since the ’70s, but this movement’s been here forever. The lineage of it goes all the way back to Lindy and these different styles of dance that were here before us.

Pier Carlo: Is there a limit to how much you can alter the tradition? Given that you are preserving this genre, how many other influences can you throw into it and keep it what it is? 

Michael: What I do is I keep the foundation and the format of it.

Pier Carlo: Which is what? Can you explain what those are?

Michael: The format of it is Shuffles. You got Shuffles, you got kick wiggles, you got wiggle backs, you got all these different things. When I go into a college or a studio to train dancers, I have to say, “This kick wiggle back, yes, it is a kick wiggle back, but look at it very close. It’s also the Charleston.” A lot of the times, even when we think we are not being original or it’s not original, it’s still original, if you get where I’m coming from.

I don’t break rules that we didn’t break. We already broke the rules when we decided to put this movement in a box. It’s important for us to know where these movements come from to know where we’re going.

I don’t break rules that we didn’t break. We already broke the rules when we decided to put this movement in a box. It’s important for us to know where these movements come from to know where we’re going. Just like I correct my students to this day. They say, “Michael Jackson moonwalked.” I’m like, “No, he didn’t create the moonwalk. It was here much longer than him.” When I get in these certain rooms, I teach the format after the kick wiggle backs, the shuffles, the sounds, the different arms, the flagging. I tell the lineage of that. But then I also say, “Look, here’s our lineage and here’s our foundation, but if you want to grow and keep growing, you have to know where it started as well.” 

Then I explain to them, even with me being a teacher, I’m still a student. I know nothing. I walk into a room always wanting to learn.

Pier Carlo: Oh, really? That’s very humble.

Michael: Most definitely. Most definitely.

Pier Carlo: Because I would think you’re an expert by now.

Michael: And I appreciate that. But we are all experts at something in our own right. We just don’t know it. But if I walked around being an expert, that’s going to limit me. I’m going to hit a ceiling, when I want this dance to be timeless.

Pier Carlo: Do you ever see people dancing what they claim to be the Detroit Jit, and you’re like, mmmm?

Michael: Of course. All the time.

Pier Carlo: Do you say anything? 

Michael: Of course.

Pier Carlo: What’s the mechanism for ensuring that the form remains authentic?

Michael: You’re going to like this answer. If I see a suburban kid that has no connection to the culture and they're trying to imitate it and they’re doing it in my face because they know who I am, right? If I’m out at a dance event or a club or whatever. If I’m in any one of them areas, you know what I do? I translate, and I have an understanding that they want me to see them. They’re doing it in my face because they want me to see them and they want some type of approval. So what do I do? I see them, and I say to them, “Do you want to learn?” And they say, “Yes.” And I start teaching them for free, bro.

Pier Carlo: Really?

Michael: Yes. Yes. I take them in. I watch their energy, I take them in. Then I have to see them more than once. I have to see that they really want to do it. And I take care of them. Then at the end of it they become Jitters. 

When I first start teaching, I teach with love to get them in. Then once they’re around me, I put an expectation on them. “Now you know your foundation, you know your fundamentals, you know these different movements. Now I’m on your ass.” Excuse my French. “Now I have to be the person that you’re not going to like all the time because I want you to be better. We may fall out and may not talk for a year or two.” Then once they get in the place that I’m in, they come to me and they say thank you. And that is my blessing. 

I would never ever get upset if one of my students passed me or did better than me, pushing this culture, because my whole purpose of teaching and giving back is for the next generation to be better than me.

Pier Carlo: When did that desire to give back and push the culture grow in you? 

Michael: Well, could I be honest? My friends made me teach them. [He laughs.] I had no choice, OK?

Pier Carlo: What do you mean? They liked what you were doing —

Michael: And just slid in, like, “Yeah, you about to teach me.” I’m like, “What?” Because I always had a name in high school, so these people were like, “Yeah, you teaching me.” In my neighborhood where I grew up, to this day, they think I’m probably the best dancer in the world, because in those neighborhoods they don’t leave the neighborhood. They don’t know. They don’t know any better. I took my team, these people that never had a dance background, and I taught them when they were 21, 22. And now they’re successful Jitters. 

I can’t say that I was like, “Oh, I want to be a teacher.” I never wanted to be a teacher. It just happened.

Pier Carlo: But clearly you came to really enjoy teaching, it sounds like.

Michael: Uh. [He laughs.] 

Pier Carlo: No?

Michael: I just accept my responsibility, if you understand what I’m saying. When I’m going to work and I’m giving back, I’m in. But when I leave them, I’m gone.

Pier Carlo: What do you love most about your dancing?

Michael: The beauty. I love the beauty in it, the timeless groove. You could look at this dance and see that it was here much longer than me. It’s a bounce. It’s a feeling. I love the versatility, the different elements of the dance, like the flagging, which is dancers trying to imitate whacking, and they don’t even know; they’ve just seen it on shows. And then the bisco, which is the shaking, the girl dance in which you put on the persona like you’re a woman and you’re moving around in this circle and you’re being very entertaining. The breakdowns, getting to the ground. The drops, the explosive drops. 

Pier Carlo: Are these elements that were added to the dance in more recent years?

Michael: These are elements that were added in the more recent years to the dance. And when I say recent, I’m talking about the ‘80s, beginning of the ‘90s.

Pier Carlo: It sounds like your mentees may be evolving the dance ahead of you possibly, so you may have to keep up with them too.

Michael: No, they got to keep up with me.

Pier Carlo: [Laughing] But they must introduce ... because there’s also new music, right? So new music must beget new dance.

Michael: Yeah, yeah, that’s true.

Pier Carlo: They must bring in new movements that —

Michael: No, they don’t.

Pier Carlo: [Laughing] No. You are totally shutting that down.

Michael: No, they don’t. They’re still doing my moves. If you came to a rehearsal or a practice, you would absolutely see: Nah, they’re not. Certain people do different things, like tricks, but as far as footwork and movement and all that, nah. Even the way I listen to music, what I could dance to, they’re still trying to pick my mind. Because I have a talent to hear everything; I don’t just hear one thing. Some people’s ears and their brain are only there to hear the snare. 

Pier Carlo: You’ve always had that ability?

Michael: I always had the ability to dance on beat, but I started developing and growing once I started learning patience.

Pier Carlo: Other than the fact that you love it and you are a master of the form, why is it so important for you to keep the tradition of Detroit Jit alive and thriving?

Michael: It’s important for me to keep this culture going because, first off, it’s not that many cities that have their own culture and their own styles of dances. And their own history of dance. I take a lot of pride in that. 

The goal is to have this dance in universities. My goal is to have this dance a respected genre of dance, like how people in colleges or in studios will bring up tap, ballet, jazz, these different styles. I want Detroit Jit to get that kind of respect because it can translate into every genre of music. There’s no limit to this.

If you keep the culture of a city alive, you also keep the children in check. Because once this spreads and they see individuals doing well in their art style that comes from their city, they are interested. They are instantly interested in learning and pushing the culture and pushing the style.

If you keep the culture of a city alive, you also keep the children in check. Because once this spreads and they see individuals doing well in their art style that comes from their city, they are interested. They are instantly interested in learning and pushing the culture and pushing the style. 

I’ll give you an example. When I was teaching at a studio in Pontiac, all my kids used to always say, “Mr. Mike, we don’t want to dance. We don’t want to Jit.” Now I’m no longer there, and they see all the other kids that I’m teaching and who are traveling with me, and they’re like, “Mr. Mike, I want to do this!” I’m winning the Joyce Award, all these different things, Spirit of Detroit, and they’re like, “Mr. Mike, I want to do this!” I feel like I’m no longer pushing this for me and it’s no longer about me. I’m pushing it for them.

Pier Carlo: Well, since you brought up children, I want to talk about your partnership with Living Arts and the project “Rhythm of the Feet.” How did it come about, and what your goals are with it?

Michael: I’d already had a goal of getting in the nonprofit world and winning these different grants. I saw that someone on Facebook said something about a meeting with Living Arts. I didn’t know what Living Arts was at the time. This was the summer of 2018. We went, and we got hired instantly. 

I was already teaching. I’d already had a job teaching at different places, but since Living Arts is community-based and it’s one of the biggest nonprofits in Detroit, if not the biggest, they were already in the Detroit Public Schools system. They used us because we were different. Because a lot of the time they had different kinds of teachers. They had people that were teaching tango and all these different dances, and the kids didn’t like that. Honestly, the kids just didn’t like it. We went in there, and they saw  us — it was three of us — and we were a reflection of them. They looked at us as uncles and parents. We were relatable. 

At first, I went in there with the mindset of just teaching Jit, but how I teach is I scan the room. I was like, “You know what? I’m going to teach Hip-Hop.” I started teaching them Hip-Hop, and from there we were just working around the city. They were sending us everywhere. They made us the face of the nonprofit. 

Of course, COVID shut us down. We have a new regime. Everyone got fired; people quit. I’m still holding onto them and all that, but then we open up, and I had these ideas. I had already won Kresge, but I was looking for different grants. I was like, “I can’t win the big ones because I’m not connected to a nonprofit.” But I was connected to a nonprofit; I just wasn’t thinking of Living Arts! I was already connected. A lot of the times the nonprofit has to be the connection to get the grant.

I had told Laura, the director of Living Arts, I wanted to apply for Joyce, and she was like, “You want to apply for Joyce? I just moved from Chicago. I know people in Joyce.” And I’m like, “Really?” She was like, “Come on, I got you.”

Pier Carlo: Joyce was your idea?

Michael: Yes, Joyce was my idea. I knew nothing of it. I just went on the internet, saw it and saw that I needed it. I didn’t even know who won it. People like Terence Blanchard and Camille Brown had won it. We ended up getting in contact with the Joyce. It happened so fast. As soon as we applied, they gave it to us. They responded so fast. Laura was like, “Mike, they want to get in a meeting with us!” They were like, “Well, you all got it. We have to have two more people to sign off, but you all got it.’” We knew we’d won it way ahead of time. 

Pier Carlo: I wonder if you can talk about what might be changed, whether in funding or community systems or city government or the world of dance, so that both your dance work as well as your cultural preservation work would just be easier for you.

Michael: One thing that I don’t like about the grant world is they make it really hard to get the grants. I have people around me that understand the language. Everyone doesn’t understand the language. Sometimes people just have the talent. Yes, you can hire someone, but if it’s about the artist, why do they have to be damn-near a perfect writer to get the grant if it’s about art?

Pier Carlo: What do you think those foundations could do differently not to ask the artists to be amazing grant writers but reward them for their art alone?

Michael: I think that they should ask the artists to put together a really good collage. I don’t think it should be easy to get the grants. I don’t, because they’re very prestigious and you have to work for them. And OK, for me to play two sides: Every dancer is not an artist, and every artist is not a business. If everyone that was good could just get this grant, it would hold no value. There’s a lot of good people out there, so I get it. But what I’m saying is it should be a little easier.

The beauty of this, because I’m going to say the flip side of it, is that we have these resources. It was probably millions and millions and millions and millions that fought for us to get to where we are right now as artists and be able to apply for grants and get the money. So that’s the flip, that’s the best side about it.

Because I don’t have to want to be a famous dancer or this huge entity that everyone wants to know. I don’t have to fight for that. I could just create and apply and create my own moments and have a lifetime fellowship that I can communicate with all the time. Joyce flew me out last year, and I got a chance to meet people, different kinds of people, people that had won these grants before, and they’re flying me out this year. So this is a family. The relationship is much more important than the money.

Pier Carlo: What’s the next big moment that you’re dreaming for yourself?

Michael: Well, when I say self, it’s not really about self, because all the people that I had in this show, they had their moment. When I think of moments, I’m not even thinking about myself; I’m thinking about sharing. My biggest goal is to take this show on the road and create more memories with everyone.